Zal's Jewhad

so... i'm having this ongoing convo, with this middle aged lady, very nice person, well meaning, who bless her, tries so hard to bring me to mr jeezes' side :-} ...
 and the poor thing feels bad, bcuz all her familiar 'arguments' are evaporating.

She wrote me that i'm haughty and proud, bcuz i'm talking down to her, ''as if she's three years old''!
(my 'talking down' consists of me showing the verses she sends me- in their context, which nullifies her 'proofs')

so after the familiar string of the usual 'proofs', which i mostly remembered by heart, and showed her how it isn't in any way a proof about mr jezzs,
she again mentioned the 'blood'...

Rather than yet again bring up the verses about all other 'non-plasma-based' forms of obtaining Gd's forgiveness , (which i've already presented previously to her)
i told her that we DO indeed have a blood covenant with Gd: the circumcision.

She didnt like my answer, bcuz she piped up ''so what do u do, cut off another slice every time u sin?''  LoL
(which i liked, it might do well in a stand up comedy routine, if i ever decide to go that way!)

No, i explained, just as u dont expect mr jeezes to be crucified every year or so, once is enuff for our members too :->

And i explained that surely she understands that circumcision might be a covenant which involves some blood, but one does not bring one's foreskin as an offering. Sure she said.
-So why would bringing an ENTIRE human as an offering be better???
There's no mitzva to bring human sacrifice!!!
Sheep, meal offering, goats, incense. But no HUMAN!

(and as much as i resent mr.J for fomenting all that ill will toward the sages, i don't compare him to a goat or a sheep!)
  Besides , if mr J was ABLE to save himself from death, and he did not,
it might be considered a very grevious transgression, to waste Gd's most precious gift- our very existence! to squander Go'ds gift of life is no small matter!

(at which point i've mentioned that i dont necessarily consider mr J such great role model- would u want YOUR child wondering around the countryside, cursing our respected spiritual leaders, an unmarried hobo... provoking the roman authorites and the jewish rabbis...?)

no, she protested, he didn't 'waste' his life! he died for our sins!

? really? and did it do any good? did people STOP sinning after jeezzus got temporarily deadened? and why would his 72 hr clinical death absolve an unrepentant sinner of any guilt? and if repentance is still required, why have mr jeezus 'die' at all, if his mere 'dying' doesn't do the trick???

...and, it wasn't even a 'real' death, bcuz it only lasted 72 hr...

...and how does it show G'ods love to let jeezus die? isnt more loving to REMAIN with his followers? to minister to them? be a 'father' to them? what's so 'loving' about spreading some doubts about the righteous rabbis, and then poof, disappearing?

My online friend didnt have any good answers to any of those...
All she was able to do was to repeat that 'he died for our sins'... sheesh.

At this point, xians like to throw in a jab at our holy sages, calling them 'nit-picking Pharisees', who were 'wilfully obstinate and blind' to the 'good news' of the redeemer arriving in Israel...

Which needs to be addressed. just as 'zionism' became a derogatory accusation, being accused of being a follower of 'pharisee rabbis' is supposedly an insult!!!

Why so? the word 'pharisee' comes from hebrew 'parish'-to separate oneself (from mundane pursuits, not from community)
The rabbis in jeezus' times were the rightful guardians of our faith! They were responsible to deal with any abberrations, heresy, divergent unkosher influences, etc etc.

The were OBLIGATED to investigate jeezus' claims and teachings!!! So they weren't 'nefarious' or 'stiff necked'. They were doing their JOB: making sure that no false claims or heretical teachings were being spread. Which there were. Jeezzus' strange claims about 'forgiving sins', bloodlessly or not, were pretty troubling, and not very kosher.

At which point i reminded her, that even Jzs' own mishpocha rejected him as messiah, as well as the sages! She didn't like that either...

We ended up with me restating that even if we side-step the issue of 'forgiving sin' in G'ods stead, etc, mr. Jeezs did not qualify as a jewish king, not being legally a kosher descendant of the Davidic dynasty, what with the parentage thing...

(Not to sneeze at having G'od Himself as the 'father', but having previously shown her the spuriousness of the 'immaculate' birth verses, she had seemed a bit wilted)

So, after showing her how all those verses about actual Davidic dynasty, which include actual children-SEED, -the best she could do was, to answer me that mr J will indeed grace our planet yet again, ''any day now'', and this time deciding to find himself a nice jewish wife, and'll raise a more 'traditional' family, returning triumphantly as a messiah, a king and an actual 'redeemer'...

o well, good luck with that i thought, and with this time around showing his Davidic PATERNAL descent (i didnt want to be a total jerk and call mr J you-know-what)

I basically told her that Gd wants us to LIVE as jews, not 'DIE', never mind for only '72 hours' !!! So Jeezzus' disappearing act isn't very kosher. If Jzs wanted to be our leader, why didnt he actually LEAD??? Why did he disappear after mere three year teaching career? If you cant lead, get out of the kitchen! (which apparently he DID)

Her weak rejoinder that Jezzus is ''in heaven on Gd's footstool etc'', I answered that I'll leave Jzs playing on his 'stool', while we'll continue praying for a REAL messiah, REAL peace, REAL Temple and a REAL leader, not an imaginary one 'up up there'...

So, i'm not sure if i've accomplished anything?

Some hold that it is an obligation to help nonjews out of idol worship, and the views are divided: if praying to mr J=idol worship or not?
It is referred to as 'sheetfus'-''partnership'''...or is it a straight up avoda zara, idolatry?
Hard to decide, as the gentiles themselves aren't sure what they hold?

is mr J , a 'god',? 'son of 'god'? both? part of 'god'? part of three? separate but equal??? is mr J 'one' or 'one with Gd'? or 1/3rd of Gd?
oy vey...

of course they also lump together the concept of 'god', messiah, prophet...

Missionaries seem to get confused when i dont bother disputing their claims about Jzs' miraculous exploits: multiplying food, curing the sick, exorcising pigs...
(pigs? in israel? wth?)

My take is, if there were some spooky powers, or if people believed that there were, so what? It does not prove that jezes was a 'god'. Remember, jews arent as easy to impress :-) We had Gd split the sea for us, lead us for 40 years with a pillar of fire, strike Egypt with ten plagues, feed us manna and quail... and of course gave us the Torah, publicly, not in secret-hush hush in some cave, but in full view of entire nation!
Yep, jews are a hard nut to crack, we don't impress easy :-)

I've been around some heavy-duty rabbinical mojo, hassidic/kabbalistic serious displays of Force! it takes a LOT more than some extra fish or some poor demonized porkers to convert us!!!
I've seen or heard of pretty impressive cases of healings, nature acting 'unnatural', miraculous predictions and interventions...
Yep, color me inured :-)

So, while those poor missionaries are salivating at my expected astonishment at Jebus' heroic exploits, I'll demurely let them talk without trying to deny it or anything...
When they're done, when i'm sure that they got their 'good news' off their excited little chests, I'd explain that yes, i've seen/heard about many miraculous events...and i understand their excitement :-}
...however...

it takes more than mere miracles to 'make it' as the 'jewish messiah'.
(I'd leave it unsaid that it might be enuff for being a 'goyish messiah' ...
but a JEWISH one? we'll need actual results: peace in israel, peace in the world, the temple back in bizness, etc.)

Of course i have my prophetic sources pretty much down pat, which aint a great feat, with so many wonderful missionary-busting youtube clips, websites such as drazin.com, outreachjudaism.org, and jewsforjudaism, both .org and .ca!

Mind you, i'm not knocking on poor gentiles' doors, demanding they relinquish jeezs! i'm just standing up for us, on multifaith discussion forums, where judaism is so often attacked or put down.

With xianity and islam slugging it out mightily on public media, as well as on battle fields, i think the world deserves to be reminded that it was judaism and our Torah that  introduced our planet to One Creator for entire humanity!

With all those centuries of jews being afraid to stand up for our faith! i'm reminding everyone, jews AND non-jews, that THEIR religion is merely a modified version of the covenant we've been trying to keep, while being forcibly baptized, killed, burned at stake, or at least discriminated against.

And now those shmoes have the unmitigated hubris (love that phrase !) to tell us their 'good news' about jebus' grace!!!

Grace??? Xians have hundreds of years of persecuting jews, pagans and muslims under their belts, and now they have the chutzpa (see : unmitigated hubris :-)
to try telling us about jezzus' MERCY??? that genius spent his 'ministry' turning over tables at our Temple and calling our holy rabbis 'sons of devil' and 'vipers' !!!

Is that how u show people Gd's love???

so I try to share OUR 'good news'-, both to our jewish and non-jewish friends:
all those absolutely beautiful psalms, emanating Go'ds love and mutual yearning!
No, i'd tell those well-meaning, but insulting missionaries, your deluded messiah or whatever he held himself to be, he didnt 'invent' grace!
Gd created us, not mr jeezs. Gd took jews out of egypt. not mr. jeezs.
Gd sustains us. Had sustained us through crusades and inquisitions and pogroms and holocausts. Every breath is Go'd-given. not 'jeezs-given'...

i see many non jews becoming less pushy with their jeezs .
many are beginning to see that their 'good news' might not always be so good...
and the truth begins to o so slowly to percolate:
Go'd is bigger than some dead self-proclaimed 'savior' who promised 'redemption' but ended up causing millions of innocent deaths...

Go'd should unite us.
not failed jeezs, not militant muhammad. One Creator. one humanity... respecting and supporting each other ...

Be careful trying to add to this simple idea. trying to mess with this plan has proven dangerous to everyone's health.

Christianity Disproved

              Christianity disproved:

G'od's our redeemer, not some dead self proclaimed 'savior' who didnt even bother saving himself. Jzs did not save anyone, just the opposite.

Isaiah 43, as far as i'm concerned, announces in a CRYSTAL CLEAR message: G'od is our 'REDEEMER' & 'Savior'. not Buddha. not k'rishna. not Jzs.

 I don't know how much more clear can u put it?

(Isaiah 43:11) ''I, yes I, am A'donai; besides me there is no deliverer.
12 I have declared, saved and proclaimed —
not some alien god among you.
Therefore you are my witnesses,”
says A'donai. “I am G od.
13 Since days began, I have been he.
No one can deliver from my hand.
When I act, who can reverse it?”
....

(isaiah 43: 25) ''I, yes I, am the one who blots out
your offenses for my own sake;
I will not remember your sins.''
....
G'od forgives our sins. G'od saves us and redeems us. no-one else.

Yes, we are born with earthly desires for bodily pleasures, for riches, for revenge etc.
That does not mean that we are born 'cursed' or 'condemned to hell'!

It isn't our fault, it is the way G'od has created us. And, only G'od can forgive our sins, not some self-proclaimed 'savior' who didnt even save himself.

Jzs's death did not stop anyone from dying. People didnt stop sinning or killing or hungering for forbidden pleasures.

Jzs did not rule as a king. He did not rebuild the Temple. He did not increase the observance of Torah among Jews, nor did he gather all jews from the exile.

Jzs' followers started worshipping HIM, instead of G'od, inventing all kinds of bizzare false baseless doctrines like 'trinity', 'virgin birth' not found in Torah, or self-serving church propaganda, such as a 'spiritual temple' -instead of an ACTUAL one...

Newt Testment cannot be considered as 'prophetic', for it was not written by prophets. Not even by Torah scholars! Many parts of the N.T. are of UNKNOWN authorship! Others are KNOWN to be written half century AFTER Jzs' death.
The writers of N.T...were fishermen and tax collectors, hardly an authority to bet one's eternal soul on!

Xtians quote Jzs as saying: 'know the tree by its fruit'...

Perhaps Jzs, not being a real prophet, did not foresee how much bloodshed his followers would cause: Crusades, Inquisition, Genocide of ,,pagans,, auto da fes, pogroms, slavery, forced baptisms and blood libels...

About Jzs 'blood sacrifice':
1. Jzs did NOT die for our sins. He died as result of HIS OWN actions, i.e. his failure, his REFUSAL, to hide or even defend himself against the charges. So it wasnt his 'sacrifice' but his own fault.

2. Jzs didnt 'save' anyone. Was anyone's death penalty repealed? Was any decree anulled bcuz of his self-inflicted death???

3. Torah does not count HUMAN sacrifice as a way of atoning of sins.

4. A sacrifice which comes back to life (as Jzs was believed to by his followers) is not considered 'kosher'.
If a priest offers a sheep or a goat, and it somehow comes back to life, it wouldnt be considered a 'kosher' sacrifice.

5. did Jzs 'conquer' death???

If he had lived for nine hundred years, that might be considered as 'conquerring' death. But awaking from a three-day coma??? That's not real death... And, news flash: people are STILL dying. So death isn't ''conquered''.

6. jzs was NOT sinless. Suicide is a serious sin.
Allowing his students to break Shabbat is a serious sin- publicly desecrating Gd's day of rest is a tremendous desecration.of Go'ds Name.

Implying that one is a 'god', leading BILLIONS to be guilty of heresy and blasphemy and of taking G'od's Name in vain???
How great is such sin??? so no, Jzs was not sinless.
.....
check below for sources to explore further:

www.leavingjesus.com
www.askmoses.com
www.outreachjudaism.org
www.jewsForJudaism.org
www.jewsForJudaism.ca
www.aish.com
www.chabad.org
www.noahide.net
www.noahide.com

http://outreachjudaism.org/original-sin/